My Meeting with President Morsi of Egypt Last Night
From years of global travel and engagement I’ve come to see the Kevin Costner line in “Dances with Wolves” proved out again and again, “What they say about these people is not true. . . . “. Yes, there are always those that are extremists to the edge – and those are the ones we hear about. They are the ones that make our news and though all news is important, some of it sells a lot better. Those stories that appeal to our fear are always hotter than those that appeal to hope and reason. It’s always easier to hate and vilify others than connect, engage and look for solutions.
Last night, I met with President Morsi of Egypt, along with a few other faith leaders of Judaism, Islam and strands of Christianity. I was the only evangelical in the room. I also met for the second time Egypt’s Foreign Minister and for the first time the Egyptian Ambassador to the US. The President cancelled meetings with 4 other heads of state just to be able to talk about faith, government, and global affairs with faith leaders. John Esposito, who invited me, chaired the group of about 17.
President Morsi started off with a drafted statement to the group. There was nothing in it that anyone would disagree with – it was generic, measured, and politically correct for the context. He said what was being reported and what was reality was often not the same for the people who are living within it. He talked about being the President for all Egyptians for freedom, open society, tolerance and cooperation.
Then came the questions and comments. Dalia Mogahed, American Egyptian, a Gallup researcher asked questions on what pluralism means for Egyptians and what has changed with him since being a candidate and activist and Doctor to now being the President. Questions were asked about youth unemployment, women, the global perception of Islam, etc., what you would expect. I wasn’t in a hurry to speak, being the only evangelical in the room, but when it was time, I did. Here is what I said.
President Morsi, I’m Bob Roberts, an evangelical pastor from Texas. I want you to know that I pray for you, and have prayed for you when I see you on the news, that God will give you wisdom and insight into leading Egypt in this time. Many people in America and in my tribe in particular have fears and concerns about Muslims and the Muslim Brotherhood. Most know neither. You may think, as evangelicals, we all think alike, but we don’t. I come from very conservative roots – to us a Salifist would be liberal! He died laughing and started pointing to someone saying something in Arabic. Mr. President, you should know some of us supported the Mosque being built in New York, not because we are Muslims, we are Christians and I want the whole world to know Jesus, but because of religious freedom. What we do here affects what we do there. You should know that many of us denounced the movie that recently has caused the uproar. You should know that as an evangelical I support Israel and always will, but I also support the two state solution, just as the Rabbi who just spoke of the two state solution, and I equally support the Palestinian people.
He interrupted me, “Are you serious?” Yes sir, I am. “I have never heard this about evangelicals – this is new to me.” I told him he could not change the perception of Islam (this is something he brought up, that he wanted to change the perception of Islam in the West) in America and I cannot change the perception of evangelicals in Islam – but we can speak to our own tribes and be bridges between each other to work together. As we come to know one another, not on the news, but as friends, it changes everything. Sayid Syeed, one of the founders of ISNA was there – I told the President getting to know men like him changes people. We must challenge our own tribes.
Also, dialogue is good, but connecting with one another is even better in people to people relationships. I’ve been a part of connecting imams and pastors and everyday citizens in different countries and even in my own city. We had an event last year at our church where 2500 Muslims and Christians gathered at an evangelical church to build bridges. “Are you serious? I have never heard this. This is good to hear. I cannot believe this. You must be serious you are here.” I told him I was serious, I was a Texan – lots of laughter. If he would like, I’d love to come and bring pastors and connect them with imams and their congregants to do projects together. I told him, my focus isn’t on Christians in Egypt but connecting people of different faiths for the common good of the city. He told me I want to talk to you, and I want you to come to Egypt to see for yourself what is happening there. And I want you to pay your own way! Everybody exploded in laughter. I told him I would.
I then asked him, “Would you be willing to connect and build a relationship between our peoples?” He said yes. I then asked, so as President, what are you doing to protect the religious freedom of the Copts and others that are Christians?” He told me there were incidents, but it isn’t like what is portrayed on the news. He once again told me to come and see for myself. He told me being the President requires him to do so and being a good Muslim does as well. He said he wouldn’t be a good President if he didn’t. He seemed passionate in his answer. I thanked him for committing to protect Christians – I asked him how I could help him as well.
Other things stood out, the Copt leader actually agreed with the assessment of the President on his view on freedom of religions. The Copt leader said the most important thing is that we show the love of Jesus.
Someone asked a question and President Morsi relied, “Egypt is not an Islamic state it is a civil state. He said 4 words characterized all they were trying to do: democratic, civil, constitutional, rule of law. Keep in mind the Egyptian press and media were in the meeting which was incredible, him being a Muslim Brotherhood, but saying this.
I gave him a “Texas” ballpoint pen, and an advanced reader copy of my new book, “Bold as Love”. There were many other things discussed, but as I left, what stuck out in my mind was his deliberate positions shared with a lot of humility and trying to reach out to all of us. He was also honest in making it clear things had a way to go and he was doing his best. I’m going to give him space and grace. I’m grateful people have given me that throughout my life. It doesn’t mean I agree with him on everything or won’t share my views and concerns.
Whether I agree with a man’s religion or understand his politics God can still use any man for his glory and his will – whether the man is my faith or not – seems like I remember a story about Pharoah and the Israelites once before. Only time will tell what the future holds and what kind of leader President Morsi will be. But for me, I will pray for him, and help anyway I can, without compromising my faith and convictions. I want my children and grandchildren to grow up knowing their Dad and grandad did all he could to exemplify the love of Jesus and make this world a safer place and also change the perceptions that Muslims and others in the world have of evangelical Christians, so they would be more open to discovering the Jesus that has changed so many of us.
Bob Roberts
Bob is the founder, senior leader, and chief spokesman for Glocal.net . His primary focus is to connect leaders and estabish relationships to explore transformation. Follow Bob on Twitter at @bobrobertsjr.
Comments
My dear brother Bob,
You exemplify all that is best in the world where our faiths look to co-exist in peace and harmony but most importantly, for the betterment of society.
Muslims have given so much to the world, through a contribution that has lasted 1,000 years – to art, science, critical and analytical thinking, to medicine, music and to the rule of law. A hundred years of conflict has now meant that many Muslims have now lost their footing and their way.
Muslims have much to learn and in fact, re-learn from our Christian brothers and sisters; at this time of increasing secular pressure where Christians are also many times losing their voice, or turning to a hardness of belief, with the coming together of these beloved to one another, Muslims and Christians, once again we hope that Christians will benefit as they also have much to learn from Muslims.
Education and sharing is at the heart of enlightenment and I can do nothing but applaud you for your work. There is much to do, many broken things in the world, but we remain hopeful with our faith in One God, the Lord of all the peoples and worlds, that we can through working together and finding common ground, build a brighter society and begin to piece back together the human spirit of love, compassion and faith.
Great post, great read. Thank you for the outreach my friend. We need more leaders in America that have this pluralistic mindset. Well done sir.
Muslims all over the world are deeply hurt by the recent caricatures of our beloved Prophet Muhammad , in Danish and several other publications.
Every now and then, some Western media outlets provoke Muslims by insulting the Prophet Muhammad . The baiting often succeeds in eliciting Muslims’ outrage and sporadic violence.
The latest incident started with a Danish newspaper’s caricature portraying the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist. To add insult to injury, Norwegian, French, German, Dutch and a few other newspapers reprinted the defamatory cartoons to “defend”—they claimed—the freedom of expression.
The real issue is not the freedom of expression. Free speech is not and was never meant to be absolute. There are laws in the West that ban certain kinds of speech, including those that incite anti-Semitism, racism and violence. Moreover, some countries have laws against blasphemy and defamation. To Muslims, banning blasphemy against Allah and the Prophet Muhammad has a higher priority.
For the European newspapers to reprint the offensive cartoons to show solidarity with their Danish counterpart seems akin to the plot the leaders of Quraysh had hatched to assassinate Prophet Muhammad .
The Quraysh masterminds had figured that including representatives from major tribes of Makkah in the heinous plot would make it impossible for the Prophet’s clan, Banu Hashim, to avenge. But Allah willed that the Prophet Muhammad would migrate to Madinah unscathed while the plotters laid siege to his house.
The West often underestimates the Muslims’ reverence for their beloved Prophet Muhammad, (sallallallahu alayhi wa sallam) and is, therefore, staltred by the fierce Islamic reaction to an insult against him. Few in the West know that for Muslims, loving their Prophet more than themselves is a matter of faith, not choice.
Further, the depiction of the Prophet Muhammad , as a terrorist is a falsification of history. He was considered “Al-Ameen,” the trustworthy, by his people even before he received the Prophethood.
Once, when asked by some of his followers to invoke Allah’s wrath on the enemies, he refused saying he had been sent as a mercy unto mankind.
Objective Western intellectuals have acknowledged the superior character of Prophet Muhammad . In his “The 100, a Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History,” Michael H. Hart ranked Prophet Muhammad, (sallallallahu alayhi wa sallam) No. 1 because “He was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels.”
Alphonse de Lamartine, a renowned 19th Century French writer, had this to say about the Prophet Muhammad : “As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than him?”
Unfortunately, some Muslims forget that loving their Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) means following him. Burning Danish embassies, as they did in Damascus and Beirut, to avenge the insult to the Prophet Muhammad is a complete disservice to him. Our violent reaction only plays into the hands of those who wish to reinforce the negative stereotypes about Muslims.
Do Muslims need reminding that Prophet Muhammad , forgave the people of Ta’if who had rejected his message of monotheism and pelted him with stones, bloodying him? Islamic tradition has it that when Jibreel (Archangel Gabriel) sought his permission to punish the perpetrators, the Prophet, instead prayed that some day the inhabitants of Ta’if would leave their idols and worship Allah alone. Within a few years they did.
Prophet Muhammad’s, (sallallallahu alayhi wa sallam) servant once noted his forgiving disposition, said, “I served the Prophet, for ten years, and he never said ‘uf’ (a word indicating impatience or discontent) to me and never blamed me by saying, `Why did you do so or why didn’t you do so?” (Al-Bukhari and Muslim)
Prophet Muhammad’s, (sallallallahu alayhi wa sallam) archenemies hated his Message and hurled malicious insults at him, to which he responded with forbearance. Years later when he, sallallallahu alayhi wa sallam returned as victor to Makkah, his city of birth which he was forced to leave, he asked its awed citizens, “What do you think I’m going to do to you.”They said, “You are a noble brother, son of a noble brother; we expect only good from you.” The Prophet responded with a general amnesty.
Let Muslims not forget that the Prophet, encouraged freedom of expression. In the Battle of Badr, he changed the battlefield against his own opinion due to the passionate advice of some young soldiers.
Part of the West’s success today is the freedom of expression, of thought, of religion—that draws Muslims to it from their oppressed societies. For that, Muslims should be thankful to the West. After all, freedom is an Islamic value that the West has embraced while Muslim societies have forsaken.
Defending Prophet Muhammad requires allowing freedom and practicing compassion and forgiveness, like he did. In his lifetime he, bore insults with magnanimity and devoted his time to spreading the Message of Allah. In fact, he never avenged anyone for a personal offence. Can we really respect him by violent retaliation?
Muslims should turn this extremely painful incident into something positive, by teaching the world what the Prophet, means to us and what his life was like.
As for the West, there really is a need to reexamine the notion of free speech. Without safeguards, the exercise of this freedom can be lethal, as we have seen.
One may ask, is it morally defensible to provoke violence, cause death, and create a civilizational conflict for one cartoonist’s freedom of expression?
The West already has laws to protect religious freedom, which Muslims and other peoples of faith admire. What it now needs to do is protect this freedom from being trampled by unbridled free speech. No one should have to insult Prophet Muhammad, Jesus, or Moses, may Allah exalt their mention to speak freely.
We can turn these negative, malicious cartoons into something positive by learning about the Prophet, by following him, and educating others about his teachings.
Allah described the Prophet in the verse (which means): “And verily, you (O Muhammad) are on an exalted standard of character.” (Quran 68:4)
And (what means): “Indeed in the Messenger of Allah there is a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much.” (Quran 33:21)
By a divine decision, the status of Muhammad was raised forever, as in the verse (which means): “And (has Allah not) raised high your fame?”(Quran 94:4)
Muslims were commanded to lower their voices low in the presence of the Prophet , out of respect, as in the verse (which means): “O you who believe, raise not your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor speak aloud to him as you speak aloud to one another lest your deeds be rendered fruitless while you perceive not. Verily, those who lower their voices in the presence of Allah’s Messenger, they are the ones whose hearts Allah has tested for piety. For them there is forgiveness and a great reward.”(Quran 49:2-3)
While other prophets were sent to their own people, Muhammad was appointed as the Messenger to all mankind. And such he was asked to declare (what means): “Say (O Muhammad): `O mankind, verily I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah – to Whom belongs the Dominion of the heavens and the earth.” (Quran 7:158)
On the Day of Judgement he will be the only Messenger to intercede with Allah to seek forgiveness for the wrongdoers.
As blasphemous as the drawings are, we believe that behind all events there is Allah’s pre-decree and wisdom that mortal beings fully understand only in hindsight. In the end, this deeply hurtful incident would be seen as benefiting the image of the Prophet .
A case in point is the verse (which means): “Verily, We have given you (O Muhammad) a manifest victory.”(Quran 48:1)
When this verse was revealed, even some of the most exemplary Muslims could not understand how being prevented from performing pilgrimage by the enemies could be a manifest victory. Prophet Muhammad had just signed a treaty with non-Muslims of Makkah that imposed unfair restrictions on Muslims.
The Prophet swore by Allah that no matter how restrictive this treaty seemed, it was a clear victory for Muslims. Within a few years, the victory became abundantly clear when Muslims marched into Makkah, not just as pilgrims but as victors.
Our love for the Prophet Muhammad cannot be expressed except by following him. If we did that, we will see how Allah can change this painful incident into a great opportunity for the Islamic cause.
Thank you, Bob, for sharing the grace of Christ boldly and wisely in this setting in Egypt. Love what you shared. God is faithful. … “So the honor is for you who believe…” (1 Peter 2:7 ESV
Thanks Bob… as a fellow Texan, I found your account heartening, and can sense the sincerity of it all…
Wishing more Bobs replace the Gellers of today in America…
Mohammed, Qasim, Werner, Amad – Life is too short to waste time, words, or effort. You all said “thank you” – but I thank you for your work as well.
Dear Bob, first I congratulate you for such kind and peaceful heart you are blessed with and for taking efforts to bring people to understand or the least appreciate differences. I would like to add to the topic of loving Jesus. When one read the following versus in Quran you can understand the level and place both Jesus the Massiah and his mother Marry (Peace be upon both) in every Muslims’s heart :
“[And mention] when the angels said, “O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary – distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ].”
Quran (3:45)
“That is Jesus, the son of Mary – the word of truth about which they are in dispute.”
Quran (19:35)
And the saying of Prophet Mohammed “Mary is the best of the whole women of the world”
It is essential for every Muslim to believe, love and follow Jesus (peace be upon him) when he is sent back at the end of time. The differences in views between Muslim and Christians are mainly regarding trinity. If we move away of this subject, we rather share a large volume of similarities